Provide agents with automated feedback

(banay.me)

67 points | by ghuntley 1 day ago

9 comments

  • achou 0 minutes ago
    Y'all are sleeping on custom lint rules.

    Every time you find a runtime bug, ask the LLM if a static lint rule could be turned on to prevent it, or have it write a custom rule for you. Very few of us have time to deep dive into esoteric custom rule configuration, but now it's easy. Bonus: the error message for the custom rule can be very specific about how to fix the error. Including pointing to documentation that explains entire architectural principles, concurrency rules, etc. Stuff that is very tailored to your codebase and are far more precise than a generic compiler/lint error.

  • qazxcvbnmlp 1 hour ago
    My mental model is that ai coding tools are machines that can take a set of constraints and turn them into a piece of code. The better you get at having it give its self those constraints accurately, the higher level task you can focus on.

    Eg compiler errors, unit tests, mcp, etc.

    Ive heard of these; but havent tried them yet.

    https://github.com/hmans/beans

    https://github.com/steveyegge/gastown

    Right now i spent a lot of “back pressure” on fitting the scope of the task into something that will fit in one context window (ie the useful computation, not the raw token count). I suspect we will see a large breakthrough when someone finally figures out a good system for having the llm do this.

  • visarga 26 minutes ago
    Well said, I have been saying the same. Besides helping agents code, it helps us trust the outcome more. You can't trust a code not tested, and you can't read every line of code, it would be like walking a motorcycle. So tests (back pressure, deterministic feedback) become essential. You only know something works as good as its tests show.

    What we often like to do in a PR - look over the code and say "LGTM" - I call this "vibe testing" and think it is the real bad pattern to use with AI. You can't commit your eyes on the git repo, and you are probably not doing as good of a job as when you have actual test coverage. LGTM is just vibes. Automating tests removes manual work from you too, not just make the agent more reliable.

    But my metaphor for tests is "they are the skin of the agent", allow it to feel pain. And the docs/specs are the "bones", allow it to have structure. The agent itself is the muscle and cerebellum, and the human in the loop is the PFC.

    • wcarss 7 minutes ago
      For anyone else who briefly got very lost at PFC, probably "prefrontal cortex".
  • skybrian 2 hours ago
    This jumps to proof assistants and barely mentions fuzzing. I've found that with a bit of guidance, Claude is pretty good at suggesting interesting properties to test and writing property tests to verify that invariants hold.
    • ekidd 1 hour ago
      If you give Claude examples of good and bad property tests, and explain why, it gets much better than it was out of the box.
  • sh3rl0ck 2 hours ago
    Beyond Linting and Shell Exec (gh, Playwright etc), what other additional tools did you find useful for your tasks, HN?!

    Most of my feedback that can be automated is done either by this or by fuzzing. Would love to hear about other optimisations y'all have found.

    • __MatrixMan__ 15 minutes ago
      I like to generate clients with type hints based on an openapi spec so that if the spec changes, the clients get regenerated, and then the type checker squawks if any code is impacted by the spec change.

      There are also openapi spec validators to catch spec problems up front.

      And you can use contract testing (e.g. https://docs.pact.io/) to replay your client tests (with a mocked server) against the server (with mocked clients)--never having to actually spin up both a the same time.

      Together this creates a pretty widespread set of correctness checks that generate feedback at multiple points.

      It's maybe overkill for the project I'm using it on, but as a set of AI handcuffs I like it quite a bit.

    • alphax314 1 hour ago
      Running all shorts of tests (e2e, API, unit) and for web apps using the claude extension with chrome to trigger web ui actions and observe the result. The last part helps a lot with frontend development.
    • sigseg1v 1 hour ago
      Teaching them skills for running API and e2e tests and how to filter those tests so it can check if what it did works quickly.
  • anditherobot 1 hour ago
    With Visual Studio and Copilot I like the fact that runs a comment and then can read the output back and then automatically continues based on the error message let's say there's a compilation error or a failed test case, It reads it and then feeds that back into the system automatically. Once the plan is satisfied, it marks it as completed
  • dang 21 minutes ago
    People have been complaining about the title.* To avoid getting into a loop about that, I've picked a phrase from the article which I think better represents what it's saying. If there's a better title, we can change it again.

    * (I've moved those comments to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46675246. If you want to reply, please do so there so we can hopefully keep the main thread on topic.)

  • dang 23 minutes ago
    [stub for offtopicness]
    • waterproof 2 hours ago
      "Back pressure" is already a term widely used in computing for something entirely different: https://schmidscience.com/what-does-back-pressure-in-compute...
      • johnfn 34 minutes ago
        I am not sure if I am missing something, since many people have made this comment, but isn't this in some ways similar to the shape of the traditional definition of back pressure, and not "entirely different"? A downstream consumer can't make its work through the queue of work to be done, so it pushes work back upstream - to you.
      • jagged-chisel 1 hour ago
        I have the same argument with “crypto”
        • andai 1 hour ago
          And web 3? ;)
    • jandrewrogers 2 hours ago
      This use of the term “back pressure” is pretty confusing in a computer science context.
      • cortesoft 56 minutes ago
        Yeah, I spent way too long trying to think of how what the author was talking to was related to back pressure... I had a very stretched metaphor I was going with until I realized he wasn't talking about back pressure at all
    • asmvolatile 1 hour ago
      Back pressure is not a good name for this. You already listed one that makes more sense - “feedback”
    • refulgentis 1 hour ago
      Others have pointed out the incongruity of back pressure here, I would have loved “feedback”.
    • didip 1 hour ago
      I thought you are talking about back pressure pipes in my housing complex.

      I’ve been wondering why I can’t use it to generate electricity.