Japanese Death Poems

(secretorum.life)

51 points | by NaOH 2 days ago

8 comments

  • pjc50 2 hours ago
    I only know a tiny corner of the language, but for things like this I really wish they'd cite the original Japanese. Precisely because the haiku is a constrained form, it is also an opportunity for ambiguity, double-meaning, and cases where a word may be translated with the same semantics but different connotations.

    By comparison, the gold standard for dealing with non-English poetry in English: https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1...

    You have (1) the original Greek, (2) word-by-word lookup, (3) translation notes, and (4) multiple translations.

    • buntsai 1 hour ago
      Agree 10,000 fold. English and Japanese are so different and have such different standards of aesthetics and literary form that good translations are like independent creations inspired by the original. I would like to know that the original form was. Even a word by word ungrammatical transliteration would be helpful. But not to have the Japanese available means I cannot even look it up...
    • tl2do 25 minutes ago
      I am a native Japanese

      Original Kanji - hiragana works: おほけなき床の錦や散り紅葉

      How it sounds: Oh ke naki Yukano nishikiya chiri ko yo

  • tl2do 27 minutes ago
    As a native Japanese speaker, I'm happy to see our literature introduced to other countries. But I also feel conflicted.

    The original Japanese of the first poem is:

    おほけなき床の錦や散り紅葉

    The translation on the site:

    > I am not worthy > of this crimson carpet: > autumn maple leaves.

    This contains the translator's interpretation, and the sound and intonation are completely lost. I admire the translator's effort, but I want visitors to understand how much this differs from the original.

  • seletskiy 3 hours ago

      Now that my storehouse
      has burned down, nothing
      conceals the moon.
    
    This piece instantly reminded me of Ashes and Snow movie, where one of the poems has very similar opening (followed, in my opinion, by even more beautiful piece, which you can easily find if interested):

      Ever since my house burnt down,
      I see the moon more clearly
    
    I wonder whether or not this is just a coincidence.
  • DaedalusII 1 hour ago
    The sun sips the sky until it is drowning

    I am circling my prey

    If I am strong, the world will finally let us be

    https://pearlharbor.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/USS-Essex...

  • pndy 3 hours ago
    This is surely epitaph equivalent from that part of the world

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epitaph?useskin=vector

  • Noaidi 1 hour ago
    Since time began

    the dead alone know peace.

    Life is but melting snow.

    ~~

    Having a mental illness and being homeless I sit with my life now and let it melt. I know death is coming so I just let it come. I tried to force death to come twice, but I found that suffering is really no different that joy.

    I live in a van right now so I am upper class homeless but soon I may be totally shelterless. Part of me is looking forward to it. Through the last ten years, moving from riches to rags, all my past attachments, all I can do is laugh at myself. There is such a weird liberation in inescapable suffering and I hope you all get to experience it someday.

  • block_dagger 3 hours ago
    Death is apparently snowy
    • lukan 3 hours ago
      I don't know whether there is a specific japanese cultural explanation, but in general it often was. In winter when it was cold, those who lacked the strength to go on, layed down in the snow to rest forever.
    • DaedalusII 1 hour ago
      spirits travel to rest in the mountains after death. the mountain is a place between life and death. there is much association between mountains and death. then by extension snow
  • pelasaco 3 hours ago
    "A last fart: are these the leaves of my dream, vainly falling?

    In the original, the image of a dream is combined with the cruder image of passing wind.."

    Is the wind representing the fart here?

    • pjc50 2 hours ago
      "Passing wind" is an English euphemism, the original does not use "kaze" (wind) but goes straight for "he" (fart).

      The original word order also puts the dream at the start and drops fart right at the end, which I think is funnier than putting it on the first line.

    • shawn_w 2 hours ago
      Passing wind is another term (among many others) for farting.