27 comments

  • thedays 1 minute ago
    This article is misleading as it implies that Australian energy retailers must provide every household with 3 hours of free electricity.

    This is not the case. From 1 July 2026, Australian energy retailers with more than 1,000 customers must offer at least one energy plan which includes 3 hours of free electricity, capped at 24kWh per day, to residential customers in 3 states - NSW, SE Queensland and South Australia. https://www.energy.gov.au/rebates/solar-sharer-offer

    Not all energy plans that the retailers offer have to include 3 hours of free electricity. In practice, most energy plans currently offered don’t include 3 hours of free electricity but some retailers such as Globird are offering more than one energy plan which includes ‘free’ electricity.

    The downside of these solar sharer plans which include ‘free’ electricity is that they generally have higher daily supply charges and higher usage charges outside the ‘free’ window to recoup the costs of the ‘free’ electricity.

    Australian consumers can choose the retailer and energy plan their home or business is on and can change their plan at any time.

    This page on the Energy Consumers Australia website has more details about the Solar Sharer Offer and a similar Victorian Government scheme which starts on 1 October.

    https://energyconsumersaustralia.com.au/news/solar-sharer-of...

  • SockThief 35 minutes ago
    I feel like this is still relevant today:

    Clarke and Dawe - The Energy Market Explained

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELaBzj7cn14

    • ra 15 minutes ago
      Still describes the current state of affairs perfectly. I'd love to see them on snowy 2 today.
  • mchusma 4 hours ago
    Incentivizing usage during peak times makes total sense, but if price swings are this wild, how are grid scale batteries not highly economical? My rough ballpark math was that you need roughly 20 kilowatts of battery storage to make this issue basically nonexistent, and that would cost about 10 billion dollars, which doesn't seem that much for this.
    • michaelt 3 hours ago
      I think it's less a question of batteries being economical, and more a question of the relative economics of batteries vs solar panels.

      After all, if the highest demand is between 16:30 and 19:00 you could use batteries to store power at 12:00 and sell it at 18:00 - or in famously sunny Australia you could build enough solar panels that solar output at 18:00 matches power demand.

      If batteries have a solid 9% return on investment, but solar panels have an even better 12% return on investment, panels will outpace batteries even though the batteries are a decent investment.

      (Also, from a politican's perspective, making batteries highly economical is how you get batteries built. And an awful lot of pro-environment policies involve raising taxes, banning things and creating new chores; it's nice to have some green policy announcements that actually benefit voters in the short term.)

      • perilunar 36 minutes ago
        > you could build enough solar panels that solar output at 18:00 matches power demand

        No you could not. For half the year the sun has set by 18:00.

        • sevenseacat 9 minutes ago
          I mean in the dead of winter, yes. For six months of the year? Definitely not.
      • danmaz74 3 hours ago
        You won't get 12% return if your panels generate electricity which is only paid between 18 and 19, because there is already overcapacity between 16:30 and 18.
    • jeeeb 4 hours ago
      Grid scale batteries and household batteries are being widely deployed.

      Australia is the third largest market in the world for grid scale batteries, and has the highest per-capita capacity in the world; https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/10/21/australia-becomes-wor...

      Not to mention more than 200k new household batteries installed in 2025 (out of roughly 10 million households).

    • rswail 13 minutes ago
      They are, and they are being rapidly rolled out and the "post sunset" spikes are rapidly being flattened by both grid storage and "behind the meter" home batteries.
    • jofzar 58 minutes ago
      > but if price swings are this wild, how are grid scale batteries not highly economical

      They are super economical in Australia and the government even offers discounts and interest free loan of 15k to buy them.

      • ghiculescu 54 minutes ago
        They are super economical… which is why there’s a subsidy required for people to buy them?
        • chii 30 minutes ago
          > which is why there’s a subsidy required for people to buy them?

          the gov't also offers interest free (but inflation indexed) loans to tertiary education.

          Just because there's a subsidy, doesn't mean the tax payer is paying a price for inefficiency. The policy itself needs to be individually examined to determine whether it's an efficient use of funds, not simply that it's a subsidy (time frame needs to be taken into account too).

        • embedding-shape 51 minutes ago
          Is it so out of the ordinary that a government tries to help people save money or what's the question? Sounds like you've only had the American experience in life unfortunately.
          • AnthonyMouse 31 minutes ago
            If something actually saves money then it doesn't require a subsidy because people would be doing it regardless.

            Meanwhile the government doesn't have any of its own money, so it can't really give you something that was yours to begin with, all it can do is take it from you and then give it back with strings attached. How is that helping you? Instead of subsidizing something you can make up your own mind about whether you want, they should just lower your taxes by the amount of the subsidy and let you use your money for that or something else at your choice.

            • embedding-shape 25 minutes ago
              > If something actually saves money then it doesn't require a subsidy because people would be doing it regardless.

              Spoken as someone who never been poor. There is definitely a ton of stuff people with money can do to save more money, that is completely out of reach for the people who would actually benefit from those savings the most. Subsidies is quite literally about reaching these folks that others tend to forget about.

              > all it can do is take it from you and then give it back with strings attached. How is that helping you?

              Compared to "take it from you and not give it back to you", it's definitely helping people who have less money. Not sure how this needs explaining.

              • AnthonyMouse 13 minutes ago
                > Spoken as someone who never been poor. There is definitely a ton of stuff people with money can do to save more money, that is completely out of reach for the people who would actually benefit from those savings the most. Subsidies is quite literally about reaching these folks that others tend to forget about.

                Except that there is no additional money, its just your own money but now their are strings.

                On top of that, that still isn't necessary for things that save a non-trivial amount of money, because that's what loans are for. If it has a $100/mo loan payment and saves $150/mo on the electric bill then you take out a loan or buy it on an installment plan and don't need to have any accumulated capital in order to do it.

                > Compared to "take it from you and not give it back to you", it's definitely helping people who have less money. Not sure how this needs explaining.

                Why would anybody want that either, instead of just not taking it from you to begin with?

            • rswail 9 minutes ago
              Because the individualized incentives do not take into account the community benefits.

              The money saved is distributed across the community, for both those that directly benefit and those that can't (eg renters, apartments etc). The general benefit is of greater value than the individual savings.

              Your attitude that somehow taxation is theft is a very silly Ayn Randian Objectivism outgrowth that has never been true, even in the most "free" US states.

              • AnthonyMouse 1 minute ago
                > Because the individualized incentives do not take into account the community benefits.

                Only if the utility company is pricing things incorrectly.

                If the price of electricity is ~free during the day an expensive in the evening then the individualized incentives for installing a battery line right up.

                > Your attitude that somehow taxation is theft is a very silly Ayn Randian Objectivism outgrowth that has never been true, even in the most "free" US states.

                Whether it's theft or not doesn't change the arithmetic. When you're paying them the money they're paying you, it was your money to begin with.

            • master-lincoln 25 minutes ago
              Think about people who could not afford the initial investment. It's beneficial for society here if the government redistributes wealth for the benefit of all.
              • AnthonyMouse 7 minutes ago
                > Think about people who could not afford the initial investment.

                This is what loans and installment plans are for, the payments for which come out of the savings on the utility bill.

                > It's beneficial for society here if the government redistributes wealth for the benefit of all.

                Which has nothing to do with batteries. If you want to do that then provide them with a refundable tax credit that allows for a negative tax rate in cases where that's deemed desirable.

                And even that doesn't apply to the majority of people who are currently paying a non-negative amount of tax. Why attach strings to the money going to a middle class homeowner who should have just been allowed to keep that portion of their own salary?

        • vitro 33 minutes ago
          I know people who would purchase solar panels and batteries, but they do not have enough capital to do so.
        • liamkinne 46 minutes ago
          The government loan changes the calculus. Allows for short term thinking and a long term benefit.
    • Walf 3 hours ago
      They are, but they still take time to build, and loans to finance.

      Here are two of SA's (which has the most renewable generation): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve https://web.archive.org/web/20220523164905/https://www.elect...

    • xbmcuser 46 minutes ago
      Yeah this is why a lot of people were thinking that the Australian opposition asking for spending $40-50 billions for nuclear that would come online in 20-30 years and to keep using coal and gas till then were being stupid.
      • ZeroGravitas 44 minutes ago
        It's not stupid if they are paid off by the people selling the coal and gas.

        It's just a treasonous level of corruption.

        Voters opting to be extorted like this would have been stupid.

    • josephcooney 3 hours ago
      One of my co-workers (I'm Australian) has 500 kilowatt-hours of storage at home...which is wild. Much more common is the 10-20 kilowatt-hours of domestic storage for a house.
      • BLKNSLVR 3 hours ago
        More details please, do they have a website that explains their setup?

        Are they a hoarder of old car batteries and the like?

      • jondwillis 3 hours ago
        What is their fire suppression setup like??? Granted I guess they could be doing pumped hydro storage lol
        • defrost 3 hours ago
          If they're in a rural / industrial area setting it could quite literally be a fire break around the battery area (bare dirt and no overhanging trees).

          Fire control in Australia is first and foremost about limiting spread - the bush in Australia goes off if it catches hard.

          "Mini" pumped hydro is a thing here (in places): https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-01/australian-first-mini...

      • fnordian_slip 1 hour ago
        Does he have a saltwater aquarium, or any other hobby that can make use of it? If not, I can highly recommend that he get into it, if he's into that kind of overkill :)
      • protocolture 31 minutes ago
        My dad buys lead acids written off from storm damage to solar systems (The whole system gets replaced under insurance even if the batteries are just a bit worn) and then sells them to preppers in the middle of nowhere. For a while he had above 300KW/h of storage, basically completely off grid with few shutdowns. It was kind of nuts. His house did burn down, but it was arson.
      • dzhiurgis 3 hours ago
        That's ~8 used EV batteries. Each cost less than 10k, maybe 6-8k AUD.

        If you know your way around high voltage DC, got a tractor and appropriate emulator - not exactly difficult or super expensive to pull off.

        Granted it's pretty uncommon setup as grid batteries themselves are pretty cheap too and used EV battery is simply too large for home user, too much hassle, liability, etc to save like $2-3k.

    • numpad0 1 hour ago
      Maybe they just don't work? Otherwise someone's leaving tons of money on the table. Which implies nobody is.
    • pjc50 1 hour ago
      Affordability is always relative. Australia can't afford that much battery storage, it has to spend $368bn on nuclear submarines. /s

      (did you mean 20kwh per user, or 20GW overall?)

    • 3stacks 4 hours ago
      They've already burned at least $15bn on that disastrous Snowy Hydro "battery" project... Could've just rolled out consumer batteries on a large scale instead.
      • simondotau 3 hours ago
        At current battery project prices, matching Snowy 2.0’s roughly 350 GWh of energy storage capacity with Tesla Megapacks would cost around AUD $218 billion [0] and require Tesla’s entire global Megapack production capacity redirected to a single client for five years.

        $15 billion is far more than Snowy 2.0 should have cost. But it remains substantially cheaper than any lithium-ion battery build for bulk storage. Storage on this scale is essential in a post-coal electricity grid, and batteries are not (yet) plausible substitutes for bulk storage.

        [0] This assumes linear scaling. In reality, placing an order like this would grossly distort supply and demand on many levels. Thus the cost would ultimately be superlinear.

        • ZeroGravitas 1 hour ago
          Snowy 2.0 has major limitations on what it can supply, the headline number is very misleading.

          And the comparison shouldn't be to batteries alone, but solar/wind and batteries. The former can be used directly and fill the batteries repeatedly on a timeline that is predictable.

          It provides no extra value for the electricity to be stored long term if for the same money you can generate and store it short term.

          Article on the various restrictions on Snowy 2.0:

          https://theconversation.com/snowy-2-0-cost-blowouts-might-be...

        • fragmede 2 hours ago
          Yeah the battery storage story has to acknowledge the fact that global production capacity simply isn't actually high enough to deliver that many batteries so we need alternative solutions to the problem as well.
      • asdefghyk 3 hours ago
        From Australlian ABC news...

        The cost of the Snowy 2.0 pumped-hydro project is estimated to range from \(\$12\) billion to as high as \(\$42\) billion depending on the scope of costs included (such as direct construction, interest, and broader transmission). Originally announced in 2017 with a $2 billion price tag, the project has faced massive scale and logistical blowouts. The cost of the Snowy 2.0 pumped-hydro project is estimated to range from $12 billion to as high as $42 billion depending on the scope of costs included (such as direct construction, interest, and broader transmission).

        That said , hydro systems have a LONG LIFESPAN - 100 YEARS ?

        Batteries need to be replaced every X years.

        So the ecomiomics of the comparisoan would need to be calculated ...

      • stephen_g 3 hours ago
        That was exactly the point of the project though - it was designed by the conservative side of politics in our country to try and crowd out investment in batteries and other renewables while taking enough time to build to keep coal plants operating longer in the meantime.

        It didn't work at all for that though - we had a lot of private investment in large-scale batteries anyway, because the cost came down quickly just as most people (apart from the conservatives) expected. Then the other side of Government got in and put a subsidy scheme to get hundreds of thousands of home batteries installed, which has been multiple times better bang-for-buck than the Snowy 2.0 scheme, as well as taking far shorter a time. At the same time coal plants are shutting down as expected because they are increasingly unreliable given their old ages.

        Snowy 2.0 be an expensive stranded asset basically, it will work and be somewhat useful but extremely uneconomical so basically relying on the cost being written off - if it had to recoup any investment then it couldn't run because it'd never be able to sell the power for high enough.

      • Scoundreller 4 hours ago
        You can do similar math with building above ground oil storage tank capacity aaaaaand giving everyone free gas cans.

        And you can get out every drop. And it’s always ready to go. Do need to cycle your inventory.

        Fire departments probably wouldn’t be happy about it.

  • BLKNSLVR 5 hours ago
    Edited to add: Clarification required in the title that the free energy is only between 11am and 2pm

    Very interested to see how this turns out. Ultimately we want the transition to benefit both consumers and producers / distributors (the industry). The problem from the rapid uptake of solar in Australia has been an over-supply during this 10/11am to 2/3pm period. If that over-supply is suitably encouraged to be soaked up then hopefully consumers can reduce their power bills whilst the industry has less effort in managing the oversupply and less stress on infrastructure.

    It's also about time that those who lack the means or situation to have solar panels of their own can get some advantage, in a 'herd immunity' kind of way.

    I'm in the privileged position to have had solar panels for over a decade, and now have a battery as well, and it was very obvious to me at the time that, in regards to solar, it cost money to save money, so if you couldn't afford it then the savings are inaccessible.

    This change hopefully helps those who need it, at least somewhat.

    • Havoc 1 hour ago
      Surprised they’re putting everyone on same timeslot. Would have expected some staggering to be helpful
      • defrost 56 minutes ago
        From elsewhere:

           this applies to NSW, South Australia and part of Queensland.
        
        so NSW and South Australia will be staggered in real time as they are in different time zones.

        As for everybody in the same time zone .. they are all seeing the same sun angle at noon (more or less) and all sharing the same over supply of power from all the grid connected solar power rooftops and farms. It's free surplas power during that time frame.

      • aragilar 41 minutes ago
        There's too much available power then (curtailment/negative prices are fairly common now on sunny days), and not enough during the evenings, so it's an incentive for those who don't have/can't get batteries (e.g. renters) to shift their habits. It also can be spun as a cost-of-living action.
    • pydry 36 minutes ago
      I find it amusing that back when solar and wind were niche and expensive the coal + oil lobby would lobby for "let the free market decide what to build".

      When solar + wind plunged in price they stopped saying it.

      Now that the market has driven down the price of solar, wind and storage, market based mechanisms have become ideal for solving the problem of what to do with surplus electricity.

  • abrookewood 1 hour ago
    With 3 hours of free power, a 15kW inverter and a 42kWh battery, I could almost do away with my solar panels and just survive of free grid power. I do have a 15kW solar panel set up, but I get very little from selling anything back to the grid.
    • discordance 53 minutes ago
      I have a 12 kW inverter (single phase) and 48 kWh battery. In Australia, 9 months of the year my 16 kW of solar fills the battery and covers all needs including cooking, heating and charging the EV.

      In winter, I’ve been using Ovo’s 3 hours free for about a year now and that ensures the battery is filled up daily. My electricity bill returns a credit every month since I got the battery a year ago.

    • hsb3 1 hour ago
      Grid power is already cheap. Making things free actually makes people use more power. Its called the rebound effect.
  • aetherspawn 1 hour ago
    We already get free power between 0am and 6am, so with free power between 11am and 2pm we’ll have a whopping 9 hours of free power to charge our car and heat our water storage.
  • TheChaplain 18 minutes ago
    They could just sidestep it, by making the electricity free but the transport or cable use more expensive, no?
    • rswail 15 minutes ago
      That's what is happening, the daily supply charge has been bumped up as well as the $/kWh during the other periods.

      But it will still have the desired effect of shifting usage patterns, especially for people with rooftop solar and/or batteries and/or EVs.

      We have a very large penetration of rooftop solar (due to government subsidies) and now home batteries as well.

      There's definitely been a shift in the market "after sunset" when the coal "baseload" and gas peakers used to make their money.

      The batteries are flattening out those spikes dramatically.

  • Havoc 57 minutes ago
    Seems like a good idea. Slightly tweaked consumer behavior can achieve what would take a hell of a lot of batteries
  • L-four 1 hour ago
    I am so building an arc furnace in my yard.
  • CalRobert 2 hours ago
    Incidentally the Netherlands has this too, at least with some providers (Budget Energy for one). I get free electric from 12:00 to 17:00 on weekends.
    • ctenb 2 hours ago
      Link? I never heard of this and I'm very interested
      • yurishimo 1 hour ago
        You might check the rates on Tibber as well. A lot of companies that offer a "free" usage period tend to just move the cost around. If you're comfortable taking the risks associated with a wholesale supplier, then you can likely save a ton of money without even changing your consumption habits.

        During this past month with the heatwave, my electricity bill was only about €50 despite running airco all day most days. I have 6 solar panels on my roof for reference (was 3k installed I believe). If I was willing to turn off the A/C at night, I could have easily cut the bill in half since most of the billed usage was between 18-21:00.

        • CalRobert 23 minutes ago
          Ah that looks awesome, thanks!
      • CalRobert 1 hour ago
    • superjan 1 hour ago
      You do pay taxes.
      • lopis 26 minutes ago
        There's also the electricity transport costs. We're talking about the pure electricity cost here.
      • CalRobert 1 hour ago
        Well, sure, but that goes without saying?
  • jaza 1 hour ago
  • russelg 4 hours ago
    Australia, excluding Western Australia as we are on a separate electricity grid.
    • nutjob2 2 minutes ago
      WA will be in 2027.
    • bruce511 4 hours ago
      From the article; this applies to NSW, South Australia and part of Queensland.

      So yeah, not universal yet. But the precedent means it's moving in that direction. If WA homes end up producing lots of solar at midday then this opens the door there as well.

      • rswail 3 minutes ago
        It applies in Victoria as well.

        Victoria deregulated its market before NSW/SA/Qld.

        All of the eastern states (SA/QLD/NSW/VIC/Tas) are part of a single market, with interconnects and wholesale prices set every 5 minutes.

        Victoria has its own "default offer" and regulator of the retail market, which is also offering similar "free power" hours.

        WA could be part of the NEM with some HVDC across the Nullabor, not sure if it would be economically worthwhile though.

  • leonidasrup 3 hours ago
    Dynamic pricing and deployment of digital smart meters should by mandatory in all electric grids dominated by renewables. Large electric consumers are already buying electricity at dynamic prices, small consumers should have the same incentives to shift the demand to day hours.
    • rswail 1 minute ago
      Victoria has had smart meters for two decades. The rollout started in 2006 and was basically complete a decade later.

      The other states are aiming for a 100% rollout by 2030.

    • Gigachad 3 hours ago
      I'm so on board for this. It would be kind of fun to wire all my appliances in to home assistant to have the dishwasher / dryer / etc all run during the free hours.

      I imagine eventually we might end up with some thermal storage where during peak renewable production you heat/freeze a large tank of water and then utilize it to heat/cool your house for the rest of the day. A large tank of water is much cheaper than battery storage.

      • lopis 20 minutes ago
        I don't have smart washers, but I did build a smart ESP32-based [0] zigbee numerical display. Then I use Home Assistant to send the current electricity price to that display when the price changes, and send a notification to all users' phones when electricity is cheap (< 0.05€/kWh) or expensive (> 0.15€/kWh). This helps me plan my laundry and dish washing, which are the only energy intensive appliances I have. I also try to avoid cooking complex meals in the stove+oven.

        [0] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005010546076391.html

      • leonidasrup 2 hours ago
        Storing energy in hot water is common is sunny regions, for example Turkey.

        Some large cold storage facilities in Germany are trying to optimize electric demand to use cheap peak day electricity. But they have to observe limitations in range of temperatures and capacity of cooling devices.

        https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/cold-storage-facilities...

        " Compared to conventional cold storage systems, renewable energy-driven cold storage demonstrates a 10–35 % reduction in energy losses"

        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S23521...

      • jay_kyburz 2 hours ago
        Many of us with solar already do this manually, we run the appliances once the sun is up. Even the hotwater heater is programmed to only heat during the middle of the game.

        I've been daydreaming about the tank of water idea as well, but the amount of panels you would need on the roof would be crazy.

      • fragmede 2 hours ago
        Or plug them into a UPS that charges when it's free but you can run them whenever.
        • Gigachad 1 hour ago
          Batteries are massively more expensive. Thats why the utility companies are just giving consumers free power over building their own grid scale batteries.

          A tank of water is cheap, it’s just not possible to distribute hot water over the grid. But it’s very realistic to store it locally and use for heating and cooling. Which is the bulk of power usage anyway.

          • fragmede 5 minutes ago
            There are never designs coming into the market that support only, say, the fridge, and have the software to be time of day use metering aware, that won't totally break the bank.
  • thelastgallon 3 hours ago
    Ideally, they should pay the EV owners because electricity price goes negative. The EV owners are spending their own money to create a scalable on-demand storage infrastructure. This saves CapEx/OpEx of BESS and also eliminates peaker natural gas plants. EV owners should be paid once for allowing storage, and paid again for using the power to supply back to the grid (V2G).
  • testing22321 4 hours ago
    It’s very cool to see what happens where there are simply so many residential solar installs. Power price goes negative during peak sunshine hours so they just give it away.

    Solar installs benefitting everyone, even those who never got solar.

    • oliyoung 4 hours ago
      As an Australian, the lack of anxiety and guilt you get when you're using 10-12 hours of air conditioning in the middle of summer and not paying for a cent of it because your solar panels are covering is worth more than anything
      • dhotson 3 hours ago
        Yeah totally, nice to be able to put the AC/heater on "for free". I even got a negative power bill once!

        In my specific case, I barely use much power so home solar covers basically all of the usage, my bill is dominated by the daily charge, so the usage component is practically irrelevant to me.

      • AtlasBarfed 3 hours ago
        Why shouldn't that be true practically every consumer home in the world?

        Yes, grid scale deployments are cheaper, but I'm generally guessing a lot of the grid scale solar deployments do not price in the grid infrastructure adaptation costs, and I'm not even talking about grid storage.

        Consumer rooftop solar is fundamentally democratic: it reduces reliance on centralized institutions for power delivery, Make society a lot more resilient in bad weather and other emergency situations, insulates everyday people from wild variations and petroleum and other consumable energy availability.

        Combined with plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, it would enable electrification of 80 and 90% of daily driving without grid infrastructure costs.

        • brabel 3 hours ago
          > Why shouldn't that be true practically every consumer home in the world?

          Here in Sweden nearly all of the electricity bill you pay is concentrated on the winter months when there is literally zero sunshine. Even then solar is popular here. I calculated that installing solar would take around 10 years or more to pay for itself, but I have very little hope to stay in the same house all that time so for me it seemed like a bad investment.

          That said, if you live in places where it’s sunny most of the time even in winter, like Australia, then solar is absolutely great, just don’t assume most places are like that.

          • ghiculescu 52 minutes ago
            10 year ROI is what I got quoted on a solar setup. I live in Queensland. It’s very sunny here.
      • grey-area 3 hours ago
        You should still feel some guilt for the heat pollution your air conditioning causes for those outside your house, esp. in an urban area.
        • lnsru 3 hours ago
          Can you please elaborate more on pollution from air conditioning equipment and heat pumps. I was thinking they are closed systems.
          • grey-area 3 hours ago
            Sorry autocorrect changed heat pollution to ‘what pollution’, I’ve fixed that now.

            There is some impact on others, particularly those without ac.

            • brabel 3 hours ago
              In a country like Australia where building density is extremely low that’s a negligible problem?!
            • CalRobert 3 hours ago
              If you’re using rooftop solar then presumably the net heat generated by your aircon is the same as the amount your roof is no longer absorbing. Otherwise you just described a perpetual motion machine?
        • yurishimo 28 minutes ago
          Or, we could lobby politicians to actually improve the lives of their constituents by making climate control appliances so affordable and ubiquitous that it's no longer an issue and we can stop accidental deaths attributed to heat. More green spaces can also help mitigate the impact.

          The reality is that a lot of old western europe was built for a climate that no longer exists. Houses are built to prioritize holding on to heat and rebuilding entire cities is definitely not possible if we're already bickering so much about adding heat pumps.

          Yes, heat pumps may create a rise in temperatures in cities, but there are other things we can do as a society to also lower temperatures as to create a net-neutral impact.

        • CalRobert 3 hours ago
          This is heat that would have escaped the house anyway
    • dhotson 3 hours ago
      Yeah, it's been great to see the uptake of rooftop solar in Australia.

      One downside is that large scale solar projects aren't profitable any more. It kind of sucks for the investors that adopted green tech, that they aren't getting a good payoff.

      The good news is that co-located solar and battery projects are still profitable, but capital costs are higher and payback period of batteries aren't as good.

  • thelastgallon 2 hours ago
    Australia should deploy vertical solar massively. Adds a few more hours of production.
  • tiew9Vii 1 hour ago
    Free isn't free.

    Coinciding with this, suppliers put daily connection charges up.

  • asdefghyk 3 hours ago
    Its because they have NO economical way to store it to sell for night time usage.
  • flgb 4 hours ago
    Not really.

    The fundamental costs and margin requirements in the system haven't changed.

    This is a government-mandated electricity plan (a default market offer) that competitive electricity retailers are now required to offer. Those retailers still have network costs, environmental costs, energy costs, and administration costs to recover, and so prices at other times of day necessarily go up.

    Some consumers may be better off on this plan (generally at the expense of other consumers), and some will be worse off.

    It's good politics and only so-so policy.

  • jay_kyburz 2 hours ago
    This will kill new household solar instillation.

    The payback time was already well in excess of 10 years, but now that power is free during the day, you can't count those hours as helping pay down your investment. Payback time will be 30 + years at least. You are much better just enjoying your neighbors solar rather than paying for your own.

    (Feed-in is about 3c now I think. Was 12c when many people bought their panels.)

    Note: My state 100% renewable energy so reduction of carbon footprint has not bearing on my solar decisions.

    This also feels like a fairly heavy handed way to encourage investments in batteries. But in the famous words of George W, "can't fool me again". As soon as there are too many batteries and the grid companies are not making enough money, they will introduce fees to have the batteries, or increase connection fees.

    • perilunar 19 minutes ago
      If the connection fees get too high, people will disconnect. Then they’ll probably ban it.
  • abstractspoon 2 hours ago
    When it's hardly needed!
    • worthless-trash 1 hour ago
      40c outside during summer in these times.. yeah.. hardly needed.
      • hahahaa 1 hour ago
        You need a battery to take advantage: then you may as well use a direct to market option like Amber. Which benefits grid stability too. 3 hrs without a battery is useless in Australia. As you generally use electricity for heating/cooling and need it longer than that esp. cooling.
  • andrewstuart 4 hours ago
    Some parts of Australia.

    Not Victoria which has bankrupted itself building roads and railways it cannot afford.

  • protocolture 4 hours ago
    The fine print is interesting, theres a cap, fair use provisions and it requires a smart meter. Smart meters are still a bit contentious.

    Sadly probably wont be any good for selective crypto mining, alas.

    • defrost 4 hours ago
      To be fair, in a modern Maslow’s Aussie Hierarchy of Needs energy is a foundational Physiological Need, whereas energy for crypto mining is a luxury item best placed out past the outhouse of the main pyramid.
    • nharada 4 hours ago
      A 24 kWh cap per day seems very reasonable. Drawing 8 kW is quite a lot.
      • DamonHD 4 hours ago
        My home is in London UK and is relatively small and efficient, but 8kWh may be higher than our peak demand ever over more than 20 years in this house...
        • pjc50 1 hour ago
          UK appliances cap out at 13A, or 3.1kW. Electric cookers may be on higher current wiring, but seem to be rated at 3kW max anyway.

          I think the only way most people could get to 8kW continuous without an EV would be to turn on their electric oven, grill, and all spots on their electric hob. And the kettle.

      • Animats 3 hours ago
        It's not enough to charge a car fully.
        • skeledrew 14 minutes ago
          Then charge the car partially.
        • kaelwd 3 hours ago
          How often do you discharge a car fully?
    • worthless-trash 4 hours ago
      > Sadly probably wont be any good for selective crypto mining, alas.

      I imagine that this is not the target audience.

      • protocolture 4 hours ago
        Its a time honored Australian tradition to review new government programs and absolutely milk them dry.
  • tw1984 4 hours ago
    basically they give you a few hours free electricity in exchange for significantly higher electricity prices for the rest of the day.

    basically a free IQ test.

    • bruce511 4 hours ago
      Can you elaborate on the higher elec prices for the benefit of those of us not in Aus? Is that because of the smart meter requirement?
      • ZeroGravitas 23 minutes ago
        The utilities don't really want to sell you the cheap solar. They'd rather write op-eds about how too much solar is flooding the grid and beg for more money to invest in the grid elements they can make money from.

        The government is having to force them to reflect the abundance of cheap, clean energy at these times in at least one of their tariff offerings.

        They can bend the rules slightly by adding other daily charges or limitations and upping the price at other times to reduce uptake and move us all slightly further from the global optimum but maximize their profits.

      • kaelwd 3 hours ago
        Before: 25c/kwh all day

        After: 30c/kwh most of the day, 0c from 11-2

        It's still worth it if you have a lot of load you can shift to the middle of the day (like a pool heater or battery), but for most 9-5 workers you just end up paying more at the times you're actually home.

        Smart meters are free, most people already have one.

        • bruce511 2 hours ago
          Ahh, so the 30c rate is locked in for everyone? So they've basically price-shifted the elec so it follows production cost better?

          Even if you're not home I'm thinking there are a number of ways to make use of the free elec. Hot water geyser seems like the obvious first candidate.

          I'd also think heating (in winter), cooling in summer. Even if you're not there in those times, the effects will be evident for many hours after.

          For those who have programmable washer/dryers or dishwashers it's also good. Even ovens on occasion.

          I get that not everyone is best placed to take advantage of this, but equally improvements don't have to be an "everyone or no one" option.

          • kaelwd 1 hour ago
            No it's optional, the retailers just have to offer it.
        • strken 3 hours ago
          I thought most Australians had different pricing for peak/off-peak. I'm paying 39c/kWh for peak (3pm to 9pm) and 20c/kWh for off-peak (9pm to 3pm the next day).
          • kaelwd 2 hours ago
            Yeah just a simplified example, I pay 33/16/10 peak/off-peak/midday.
        • AtlasBarfed 3 hours ago
          Get a battery
          • kaelwd 3 hours ago
            45% of us either rent or live in apartments.
            • bruce511 2 hours ago
              Sure, a battery isn't available to everyone. But I is available for many.

              One would have to do the math, cost of battery versus 24kw free daily. But clearly for lots of people the math will work.

              A side effect of policies like this is effectively getting people to invest capital to time-shift elec usage. That's good policy. Reducing the peaks in consumption solves other problems.

  • aaron695 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • Arjunsureshh 4 hours ago
    wow
  • bob1029 3 hours ago
    I miss having Griddy in Texas. Direct access to the wholesale market is probably not good for the lower end of the consumer segment, but for people with some functional marbles it can make a big difference on the demand side of the grid.

    I feel like they had to kill griddy before all the powerwall solutions started showing up. We simply cannot empower the peasants with both things at once. The ability to store energy makes access to wholesale prices substantially more effective.

    I'll never forget the days where we would get push notifications about negative prices. I'd throw the dryer and oven on every time to try and unwind the meter a bit.