San Francisco Onion Futures Company

(onionfutures.com)

112 points | by z-mach9 1 hour ago

17 comments

  • mimorigasaka 56 minutes ago
    The people behind this are a real (if silly) student organization at UChicago and Northwestern campaigning for the legalization of onion futures trading. Sometimes they will aggressively hand out free onions to passerby on campus. It's quite entertaining.

    They have a website also: https://onionfutures.org

    • a11ce 49 minutes ago
      Hi! I'm the proprietor of onionfutures.com. I'm actually not a member of UChicago for Our Futures and came up with the idea independently, but we've since connected and they handle our Chicago deliveries.
      • teaearlgraycold 1 minute ago
        I can confirm this person is the owner of onionfutures.com
      • what 32 minutes ago
        Are you really charging $9/onion? I get upset when Safeway charges $2/lb when I can get onions for a quarter that price.
        • luma 18 minutes ago
          Priced to what the market can bear
        • IncreasePosts 4 minutes ago
          Maybe it's a really big onion
  • cwal37 1 hour ago
    For those who don’t know:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act

    (which also banned box office receipt futures)

    A fun thing is to go on FRED and make a graph with prices from onions and, say, corn to see the differences in volatility.

  • Barbing 1 hour ago
    > FAQ

    >Is this legal?

    >Yes, to the best of our knowledge. 7 U.S. Code § 13-1 prohibits "contract[s] for the sale of [...] onions for future delivery [...] on or subject to the rules of any board of trade in the United States." The San Francisco Onion Futures Company is not a board of trade, defined as an "organized exchange or other trading facility". We sell contracts privately to individual buyers, and do not operate any exchange or secondary market.

    Performance art against that law?

    Also November onions are an absolute steal compared to the adjacent months!

    • hyperhello 1 hour ago
      > The San Francisco Onion Futures Company is not a board of trade, defined as an "organized exchange or other trading facility".

      I hate to argue but then what would they define this as, if not an organized exchange or other trading facility?

      • riffraff 52 minutes ago
        I think their point is there's no "peer to peer" trading so it's not an exchange. You're always contracting futures with them, so it's more like a vegetables seller than a trading facility.
        • a11ce 47 minutes ago
          Exactly right. You're able to privately resell contract keys (and the buyer can then re-issue a new key with their delivery info, voiding the old one), but onionfutures.com doesn't facilitate it.
          • altmanaltman 25 minutes ago
            I mean, it kind of does, though, no? Since it is backing the contract in the first place? Why else would anyone buy those contracts if they didn't know they have value provided by onionfutures.com in the first place? Why can't I just sell a fake key, claim it'll work, and make unlimited money this way if that wasn't the case?

            The specific laws do not actually ban the transfer of those contracts (tbf this is very complex and depends on your reading). And yes they do not facilitate the trading of the instruments in the secondary market but they absolutely facilitate the instruments themselves otherwise there cannot be a secondary market without any backers of the instruments.

      • FBT 38 minutes ago
        7 USC § 1a(37) defines an "organized exchange" as

        > [A] trading facility that— (A) permits trading— (i) by or on behalf of a person that is not an eligible contract participant; or (ii) by persons other than on a principal-to-principal basis; or (B) has adopted (directly or through another nongovernmental entity) rules that— (i) govern the conduct of participants, other than rules that govern the submission of orders or execution of transactions on the trading facility; and (ii) include disciplinary sanctions other than the exclusion of participants from trading.

        And 7 USC § 1a(51)(A) defines a "trading facility" as

        > [A] person or group of persons that constitutes, maintains, or provides a physical or electronic facility or system in which multiple participants have the ability to execute or trade agreements, contracts, or transactions— (i) by accepting bids or offers made by other participants that are open to multiple participants in the facility or system; or (ii) through the interaction of multiple bids or multiple offers within a system with a pre-determined non-discretionary automated trade matching and execution algorithm.

        (7 USC § 1a(51)(B) then follows with some exceptions to that definition.)

        In short—an "organized exchange" is defined as a type of "trading facility". To count as a trading facility", whether of the "organized exchange" type or not, you must either accept bids or offers from other participants yourself or else deterministically match and execute those bids and offers.

      • quirkot 1 hour ago
        Legal defense is basically "nuh uh"
  • shoo 56 minutes ago
    US Department of Agriculture publishes a national potato & onion report (issued daily!):

    https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/fvdidnop.pdf

    Readers may wish to skip ahead to page 4, where onions are discussed.

  • haakon 48 minutes ago
    Since this may be a legal gray area, they should host it on a Tor onion site.
  • Reason077 41 minutes ago
    Are these contract prices really "per onion"? Or are they actually per pound or per kg? Up to $9.39 seems very expensive if it's really the price for a single onion.

    I thought maybe they're some sort of special exotic onion variety, but I don't see anything to suggest that.

    • a11ce 40 minutes ago
      They are per (normal (sometimes organic) yellow) onion. Prices vary.

      (It's primarily a novelty/art thing. But I do actually delivery the onions.)

  • chirau 54 minutes ago
    In an onion related note... is the "I sell onions on the internet" guy still around? I believe he was selling Vidalia onions.
  • briansm 8 minutes ago
    The Future's Bright. The Future's Onion.
  • joegibbs 57 minutes ago
    Why was the law against onion futures passed in the first place? Couldn’t the same scheme be done with garlic, or sweet potatoes, or turnips or something?
    • chirau 56 minutes ago
      Because Vincent Kosuga.
    • gostsamo 33 minutes ago
      A guy cornered the market in the fifties, caused a scandal, they made a special exception.
  • z-mach9 23 minutes ago
    Looking forward to my 2 onions in November! Anyone have some good recipes?
    • alehrs 11 minutes ago
      Search for italian “soffritto” and “ragù alla bolognese”
  • not-my-account 1 hour ago
    These onion prices are quite high! The novelty probably drives up prices. Too bad there isn’t a liquid market for onions
    • bowmessage 57 minutes ago
      Onion soup sounds highly fungible.
  • theogravity 1 hour ago
    How many onions / lbs does a contract represent?
    • pjscott 58 minutes ago
      A contract represents a set of (quantity, month) tuples, where quantity is an integer greater than zero; that number of yellow onions will be delivered in the corresponding month to the current holder of the contract. The mass of each onion is unspecified, as is the mean and variance of the underlying onion-mass distribution from which they are drawn.
    • shoo 1 hour ago
      Pricing is per onion. You could order some and weigh them, and report back.
  • wocram 1 hour ago
    These are 1 onion contracts? Outrageous!
  • charcircuit 44 minutes ago
    >and for hedging risks associated with weather and market fluctuations

    Why don't existing futures cover this? Are onions unique in how sturdy they are? You can use derivatives of the weather itself even.

  • ElProlactin 1 hour ago
    Can we tokenize this or get some prediction markets going on Polymarket?
  • leej111 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • yieldcrv 1 hour ago
    hell yeah, based